What really happened with that GOT coffee cup??

In the final episode of this series, we discuss all the ways the coffee cup could have ended up on screen, why it most definitely is NOT the fault of the script supervisor, and then learn what really happened.

But first, we talk to  SHARON WATT.  In addition to being one of the Administrators of NYSSN - the New York Script Supervisors Network, Sharon has worked on many Golden Globe and Emmy award-winning films and TV shows such as Boardwalk Empire, The Night Of, Mr. Robot and The Time Traveler’s Wife. Fun fact, Sharon also created our podcast logo!

Hosted, Created & Produced by Caryn Ruby
Produced and Edited by Eden Woolworth
Sound Mixer Adam Carl
Original Music by Edith Mudge

Logo design by Sharon Watt
Episode artwork by Tia Marissa

Transcript

Sharon Watt (00:01)

They’re the unsung heroes on film and TV

Various (00:06)

Script Script Script Supervisor, script, script, script supervisors... the unsung hero...I kinda like that.

Caryn Ruby (00:19)

“Script Supervisors, Unsung Heroes of Film and TV” was created from interviews of over a dozen script supervisors from across the US. Episodes were written and produced by Caryn Ruby and Eden Woolworth, edited by Eden Woolworth and contains original music by Edith Mudge.

Sharon Watt (00:37)

It's a very, very difficult you're in the firing line kind of job.

Barry Caldwell (00:41)

I bet there are more people in America who know about the Game of Thrones coffee cup than know who their own Congress person is.

Toni Crey (00:51)

It was on purpose totally on purpose.

Sharon Watt (00:54)

If we do our job really well, it is completely invisible. We are the secret behind the scenes.

Caryn Ruby (01:04)

In this episode, I interview Sharon Watt. In addition to being one of the administrators of NYSSN - the New York Script Supervisors Network, Sharon has worked on many Golden Globe and Emmy award-winning films and TV shows such as The Americans, Pose, When They See Us, Boardwalk Empire, The Night Of, and Mr. Robot. Fun fact, Sharon also created our podcast logo! After the interview, we have a discussion about the infamous Game of Thrones coffee cup and find out what really happened. Hello, Sharon. Welcome.

Sharon Watt (01:39)

Hi, thank you for having me.

Caryn Ruby (01:41)

So, because a lot of script supervisors, it seems, sort of fall into this career. It was not generally something we grew up as a child going, "I'm gonna be a script supervisor when I grow up!" I'd love to hear your path. How did you become a script supervisor?

Sharon Watt (01:56)

You know, you're absolutely right, because I don't think it's a job that most people even know about. I think that's just one of the paradoxes of our job is that if we do our job really well, it is completely invisible. We are the secret behind the scenes, but yeah, I studied media arts in college. I wouldn't say it was intense, like film school. So I kind of left feeling that I was still sort of lacking in what I really wanted to find out about. I'm from England and after graduating, I ended up coming to New York to look for work experience. And I was doing a bunch of internships, the most interesting of which was with director Hal Hartley. I was a director's assistant. So I was doing that for a little bit. I was kind of really looking forward to learning more about what a director does on set.

Sharon Watt (02:39)

And then I sort of realized that my role in that company was that I was kind of holding the fort. So whenever that director went to make movies, I didn't really get to see that. He knew a lot of people in the downtown art scene, you know, and this was around the time when DV was the new medium, and everyone was making movies on mini DV. He had a friend who was making a movie out of a play and he sort of pointed me in that direction, like, "Well, you'd be really good at this. You're really organized." So kinda fell into it.

Caryn Ruby (03:18)

So you've worked on both film and TV, but it looks like you are more into TV. Do you prefer TV? Was that a conscious choice or how do you choose which projects you work on?

Sharon Watt (03:29)

Well, I think like most people, for quite a while you just kind of take what comes along. I've been a Script Supervisor for about 20 years. Though it's taken a while, but I'm at the point where I kind of feel that the way I work is somewhat distinctive based on the body of work that I've done and what I'm capable of. So I'm lucky to say that I can sort of have a choice from time to time. And I'm extremely lucky that I work out of a very busy production hub, which is New York. The TV thing, that wasn't really a conscious choice. That was just the way the industry has gone. When I was kind of starting out, I started out doing a lot of low budget features, you know, and I was kind of the queen of the tier ones for a while. <laugh> The successful television model for a while was "cop show of the week" like "medical show of the week," but became this like much more bigger richer arena precipitated by studios like HBO. Now the line between television and film is kind of blurred. You have these stories that are told in a very sort of long form way that where you could tell a very dense story with cinematic qualities, but you didn't have to wrap it up in two hours. You had the time to sort of tell that story that evolved over the course of whatever it was like six episodes or eight episodes. I think a lot of studios became very interested in doing that. And I sort of was lucky to find my way through that. And I got a couple of lucky breaks and sort of excellent jobs that really sort of took me to the next level, you know?

Caryn Ruby (04:57)

Awesome. So what makes your day on set? Like something that happens and you're just like, "Yes! That's a good day!"

Sharon Watt (05:05)

Well I guess some acknowledgement for something. Sometimes it's for something very simple, but usually when I send out my breakdown that I've spent many hours on and it gets published by the production office, then I don't hear anything. I know it's out there and everyone has it and it's like, if they have any questions, they can come to me. But there's definitely been a lot of times where it's very obvious that people don't look at it. <laugh> But then there's rare occasions where like, somebody sort of comes up to me, and sometimes it's a day player who's just come in for the week or something, and they just got this document that gave them a quick rundown of what's happening. And they're just like, "Oh, thank you for doing this document." And I'm just kinda like, "thank you for reading it." <laugh> I can just tell from the questions that I get, that you obviously didn't read the document because the answer is right in the document.

Sharon Watt (05:49)

So it can be something as simple, simple as that. The only person that really knows how good a script supervisor is, is the director. When a director has really sort of seen that I've made a difference that day or that scene and acknowledged that, then that really makes my day. And I've worked with some directors who sort of give you the quiet word at the end of the day as just like, "I'm really glad you said that because that made a huge difference," but I'm always really taken by surprise by some directors. Who'd be like, "Well, Sharon had a good idea", you know, and they just like put it out there. I think one of the secret skills of script supervisors is the skill of inception. You know, <laugh>, whenever you have an idea, we try to sort of make it seem like it's the director's idea.

Caryn Ruby (06:31)

Right.

Sharon Watt (06:31)

I'm sure all of us have seen directors just literally just like repeat the exact same words that I just said to them, but then there's also the directors who'd be like, "Well, Sharon had a great idea" and they just like make the set really open for not just me, but for anyone to make a comment. And that's a very comfortable place to be.

Caryn Ruby (06:49)

Yeah. So I guess what you're saying is when you're a sung hero... <Laugh>

Sharon Watt (06:58)

When I cross the divide from being unsung to a sung hero.

Caryn Ruby (07:04)

Yes. That's what makes...

Sharon Watt (07:06)

Yeah. <laugh> yeah. It's all about awareness and invisibility. I guess in a nutshell, like we work in isolation, the results of our work are invisible. So when someone sort of shines the light on that and is very aware of what we do that sort of elevates us, cuz it is a very, very difficult job. It's a very high stress you're in the firing line kind of job. So when someone shines the light on how we're able to excel under the circumstances, you know, then that that's something that I really sort of take to heart.

Caryn Ruby (07:36)

That was perfect.

Sharon Watt (07:38)

<laugh>

Caryn Ruby (07:42)

Let's talk about NYSSN for a minute. I'd love to hear about the origin of this group, the philosophy and how can somebody get involved if they wanna join?

Sharon Watt (07:53)

Well, NYSSN has been around for a while actually, um, almost 25 years, since 1996. So it was around when I first started script supervising. And um, it's funny because another crew member told me about it. You know, it was actually like a sound mixer friend of mine. And he was just like, have you heard of the New York Script Supervisors Network? And I was just like, "What? What is this?" He was like, "oh, it's, it's kind of like where script supervisors get together. And they talk and share stuff." And I'm like, what is this secret club, you know? <Laugh> Like, how do I get in? And I eventually sort of found out it was informally run network. It's created by Peggy Sutton, um, shout out to Peggy

Sharon Watt (08:34)

And um, you know, the origins are interesting because even though she was in the union, there wasn't enough support or communication or resources. She was just like, "this isn't the place that I thought." And I, I believe it sort of just started with literally just like a handful of scripts supervisors, just meeting up in each other's apartments and having coffee <laugh>

Caryn Ruby (08:56)

<laugh> Fun!

Sharon Watt (08:57)

So when I joined the network, I got in contact with Peggy and then our first meeting was at a coffee shop. I still sort of like this tactic today. You know, I tell people, call up a script supervisor and take them out to coffee, ask if it's okay to take them out to lunch and pick their brain. That happened with me, and that's happened with like other people that I've met through NYSSN. That's networking. As soon as you pick up the phone and call up another scripts supervisor and you agree to meet the coffee, then you have a network and then just keep on doing it. And then more people will wanna join, will want in. I've definitely learned that if you just get a bunch of scripts supervisors together, there's stuff to talk about. I mean like sometimes we're gonna have a two hour meeting and then it goes on over three hours, you know, <laugh>, we're so used to working alone and we have so many frustrations and there's a lot of situations where we can't speak online. We've been shut down or we've been at a step or we've said something that ruffled feathers. And we don't know whether that was the right way to deal with things, and it's kind of like the only person that can really understand what that's about is another script supervisor. I mean, we try to have a meeting topic, but even when we don't, there's always stuff to talk about.

Caryn Ruby (10:04)

Do you have to be in the union to join NYSSN?

Sharon Watt (10:08)

No, you don't. The whole point of NYSSN was to sort of create a space for script superivsors, whether they're union, whether they're non-onion, just to talk about scripts supervisor issues. And there wasn't a space for that at the union.

Caryn Ruby (10:27)

So if somebody's listening to this podcast and they live in around or outside of the New York area, but are interested in joining the NYSSN, how would they do that?

Sharon Watt (10:39)

All the information is on our website, which is NYSSN.org. We have a membership application form and all the details about our dues and you know, what we do and the type of meetings that we have. But yeah, I mean, I would say, you know, go to our website and sort of see whether it's something that seems like the right community for you. And then if they're not from the east coast area, then you know, we usually send them to the, the script supervisors Facebook groups and that's like an international group. And it's a much bigger group.

Caryn Ruby (11:11)

Are you talking about Script Supervisors Exclamation point?

Sharon Watt (11:15)

Yes. <Laugh> sorry iI forgot about the exclamation point <laugh> um, but you know, that is a huge group. It's like 3,300 members and, and that's like all over the world, you know, so there's a fair chance that they sort of live in some state or some country that doesn't have a community that they might be able to sort of find somebody or a group of people that are a bit closer to them and a bit more relevant to the discussions. Cause you know, a lot, some of the discussions in a normal situation when we are all working are obviously very specific to issues in the 161 contracts and like how things work in our jurisdiction, in our production hub, in New York. So, so yeah, some of our discussions, you know, like do get very specific.

Caryn Ruby (12:11)

Got t, got it. Thank you so much for spending the time with me talking with us on this podcast. It was helpful and enlightening and making a huge difference for all the script supervisors out there. So thank you.

Sharon Watt (12:24)

Well, thank you. Thank you for such an enjoyable conversation. And also for doing this. I hope it does shed light on our craft and what we do.

Caryn Ruby (12:34)

Thank you. You just sung me!

Sharon Watt (12:35)

<laugh> I just, sung you! We need to have sort of fanfare, like, "Laaa!" <laugh>

Caryn Ruby (12:47)

<laugh> Awesome! The extraordinary script supervisors on this season include Dawn Gillam who scripted “Black Panther,” “Boyz N the Hood,” “Fences,” “Star Wars Episode IX.” and she also got IMDB to create a new category for script supervisors. Margery Kimbrough has scripted Academy Award nominees and Emmy and Golden Globe winners such as “Harriet,” “Fear the Walking Dead” and “The Good Lord Bird.” Known as the author of the quintessential book "Beyond Continuity: Script Supervision For The Modern Filmmaker," Mary Cybulski has scripted multiple Academy Award and Golden Globe winning films, including “Life of Pi” and “Michael Clayton.” Randi Feldman has taught the craft of script supervising for over 20 years. Her professional credits include the Oscar-Nominated “Mighty Joe Young” and Sundance winner, “Guinevere.” Barry Caldwell scripted on “Beautiful Boy,” “Ugly Betty,” “Key and Peele,” “Queen of the South” and the cult classic “Cabin Fever,” Sharon Watt scripted culture-shifting and award-winning shows “Pose,” “When They See Us,” “Mr. Robot,” “The Americans” and “Boardwalk Empire.” Hannah Driscoll script supervises the Emmy-Nominated series “Pen 15” as well as big budget commercials for well-known brands. Script supervisor on Emmy-Nominated “Dolly Parton's Heartstrings,” “The Originals,” “Ozark,” and “Zombieland 2 Double Tap” Toni Crey. Self-described internet prankster, Nick Robinson, script supervisors commercials starring A-list talent and films that premiere at top tier festivals. In addition to "Script Soup," her book on script supervising, Beatrice Bellino creates experimental films and has scripted Emmy-Award winners “Friday Night Lights,” “Revolution,” and “Fear the Walking Dead.” Shadia Sepehrnia scripted, Lena Waithe's Tribecca Award-Winning series "Girls Room" and also writes and directs. Administrator of Los Angeles Script Supervisors Network Robert Goodwin's credits include the Emmy Award-Winning “Dark/Web” and “Love is Not Love” which snagged over 100 festival wins. And finally multi-talented Roe Mooore scripts everything from films and commercials to live TV, teaches script supervising and is a member of the DGA, Local 871 and Producer's Guild.

Caryn Ruby (15:00)

As we've said throughout this entire first season, we believe that script supervising is one of the most misunderstood and underappreciated crafts in all of filmmaking. And when continuity mistakes make the final cut, which they often do, we are the first ones people want to blame! But it's not always our fault. In fact, it's almost always not our fault. So often, our notes to the editor say something like, "This won't match. Told director, director ok'd" or "rolled on rehearsal before last looks" or a million other scenarios that we as script supervisors have no control over. If you've been on set, you know that any number of things can go wrong at any time and you just have to make it work - like if a prop breaks or the red pants from wardrobe got ruined and they don't have doubles. You don't shut the whole production down, you put the actor in pink pants and move on. Anytime, something like this happens, there's always someone that says something like "If the audience is so concerned with their pants, then we aren't doing a good job entertaining them." And we all shake our heads in agreement. But what's the story behind the most infamous continuity error of all time? What series of unfortunate events created the Game of Throne's coffee cup? How did that cup make it all the way to air? Barry Caldwell, Robert Goodwin, Toni Crey, and Roe Moore float of few different theories, and spoiler alert, we may actually have the true answer.

Barry Caldwell (16:40)

The Game of Thrones coffee cup was such a big deal. I bet there are more people in America who know about the Game of Thrones coffee cup in detail, then know who their own Congress person is. It amazed me that that mistake was so quick to get blamed on our craft when I'm positive that wasn't

Barry Caldwell (17:09)

When I first began doing this, I would watch movies and I would see the mistakes and I'd go, "oh, scripty sucks." Right? And now that I've been doing it, it's like, no, no, no, no, no take one had crappy continuity, but the performance was great. It took seven takes to have her pick the phone up in the correct hand, but by then the performance was drained. They have to use the best performance. And I so tried to explain this to people that actors will drink their coffee, and sometimes they screw up and don't put it at their feet, they put it on the table. And I said, I guarantee you, they did 30 takes of that scene. But for some reason, that one had the best performance or the best camera move, the smoothest focus pull. And they probably saw it. Cuz the show had 15 script supervisors.

Barry Caldwell (17:58)

Now I have no idea which one did that scene, but whoever it was whichever one of the ones it was trust me, someone saw it. I'm sure the actor saw it. I'm positive that was not in every take. But when you do a scene, the wrong way, the DP assures you. He goes, that was just from the one look. They won't use this in the cut. I'll go to my notes and I'll say, "this was for the one look, do not use this shot. Use the, this this this.." Sure enough, that shot is always the one the editor uses for whatever reason.

Caryn Ruby (18:29)

Even when we make sure everything matches perfectly on set, crazy things can happen in post. Barry shares a great example of how some continuity errors on screen are completely out of our control.

Barry Caldwell (18:42)

It was a fight scene and they shoot the fight in two shots: over, over, single single. And all of a sudden, the punch in the nose comes and you gotta put the blood up the actor's nose and you back it up a little bit like a pickup. And then you swing again. And then they, they kind of blow air outta their nose and the blood comes out. But thing is you shoot it past the punch and you cut. Then you back it up into a pickup and do it with the blood. And the editor pops in at that moment and voila movie magic. But they edit for some reason in ways you would never think they would. They cut back to the two shot after the punch and the blood wasn't there and they cut back to the close up and there's the blood.

Barry Caldwell (19:21)

Again, they cut back to the two shot, the blood wasn't there. Anybody that saw this at the time was probably thinking, oh, "script is an idiot." But yeah, it happens. The Game of Thrones coffee cup. I'm positive that was not in every take. And normally, they can erase those things in post. It's easy to erase, and for some reason it didn't. I've heard rumors that they erased it, but they did the wrong render out of it. Or just, editors watch the same scene a hundred times and at some point your brain just doesn't see those kind of details. But for whatever reason, they got used in the cut and it got by 30 people. It got by the editor, the assistant editor, the post supervisor, the visual effects supervisor. It got by five people at least if not more.

Caryn Ruby (20:08)

I love all the theories and rumors of what everyone heard really happened. Rob also believes the coffee cup debacle is likely not the script supervisor's fault.

Robert Goodwin (20:18)

That cup is pretty infamous, because I was just last week explaining my job to somebody. And that was one of the first things they brought up was, "oh, so that Game of Thrones cup." And it's like, "uh, yeah, everyone seems to bring that up, but really not our fault." <laugh> You know, we are not totally responsible for that sort of thing. Especially when, when it came out that the actor put it down right as they were were filming. It was the kind of thing where all those cups should have been collected by somebody way before us and who knows, we could have caught it and done another take and they still used it.

Robert Goodwin (21:01)

Cause, one of the things I heard was that they were going to digitally remove it because they liked that take so much and then something happened with the digital removing where it just didn't end up making the final cut with the fix. And it's like, well, what are we supposed to do in that situation, you know? The AD's missed it, the props department missed it. Maybe we missed it, but hey, if everyone else missed it, how are you just gonna put it on us? And if we didn't miss it and it still made it, it's like, well, it's out of our hands.

Caryn Ruby (21:34)

One of the many things that makes Rob unique is that he doesn't agree with the earlier theory that viewers won't care about the pink pants.

Robert Goodwin (21:41)

What I tell a lot of directors when they give the, "oh no one's ever gonna catch that." Somebody's gonna catch it. You know, I was the kind of guy that would catch it. And that's what kind of drives me to prevent it from happening. I often tell them, "You're right. They might not catch it the first time, but we want people to watch this thing more than once, right? And if they watch it more than once, eventually they're gonna see it. And once they see it, they never unsee it. They see it every time <laugh> One person catches it and they spread it. Other people will keep seeing it. And then it becomes a thing like the Game of Thrones cup. You think anybody's gonna watch that episode again and not be waiting for the cup? The biggest problem with once they see something like that is a break in escapism and the suspended disbelief of being in the movie. When they catch it, they get taken out of the story and they're focusing on something that's not what you want them to focus on." And that I think is usually what appeals most to directors when I bring it up, is that a continuity error is a distraction from what they are putting all their effort into, which is the performances and keeping people in the story. So if a continuity error brings them out of the story, it's distracting them from what the director is working so hard to do. And nobody wants to waste their time. I don't wanna waste anyone's time by not bringing up an error because I think nobody's gonna care and directors don't wanna waste their time thinking that they put all this work in and nobody's gonna appreciate it, cuz they're distracted by something like a cup.

Caryn Ruby (23:19)

Okay. Now Toni has a completely unconventional theory of how the cup ended up on HBO. I mean, they could have gotten it in post. They could have edited out.

Toni Crey (23:30)

Of course they could have.

Caryn Ruby (23:31)

You know,

Toni Crey (23:31)

Of course they could have, they left it in on purpose. They had to do something else besides argue about that it was so low lit that you had to change your TV screen in order to see it. So they just went, "Let's, let's just mess people's brains up." And it created so much social media. They know social media, they know why...It was on purpose, totally on purpose. And it was fabulous. I have so much respect for those people.

Caryn Ruby (24:02)

<laugh> Well, she definitely had the most thought provoking take. But next, here's Roe with what really happened.

Roe Moore (24:10)

Dude. I knew what happened with the coffee cup. As soon as I saw it, I was like, that was a rehearsal take. There's no doubt in my mind that was a rehearsal take. And then I was at some class and somebody who was a friend of the script supervisor who was on it was like, "Yeah, that was a rehearsal take." And the thing is they actually, color...they painted over it in post. It was supposed to not be seen. They painted it.

Caryn Ruby (24:28)

Right.

Roe Moore (24:28)

What happened is they exported the wrong version and gave that to HBO.

Caryn Ruby (24:33)

Mystery solved. Everybody's been talking about this, like "how did that happen?" And you just solved it. You are my hero.

Roe Moore (24:40)

There you go.

Caryn Ruby (24:42)

And there you have it. Mystery solved.

Caryn Ruby (24:47)

That's it for this episode! Special thanks to all the script supervisors who were featured, and to you, our listener. I hope you had fun and maybe even learned something. “Script Supervisors: Unsung Heroes of Film & TV” was created and produced by Caryn Ruby in consultation with the Los Angeles Script Supervisors Network. Episodes were edited and produced by Eden Woolworth with original music composed by Edith Mudge. Please subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and give us a rating or leave a comment. And if you know anyone who makes movies without a script supervisor, let them know about us. We are @The.Script.Supervisor.Podcast on Instagram.