Why You should stop calling us Scripty

At our best, script supervisors are filmmakers and key members of the crew – yet the belittling nickname “scripty” remains incredibly pervasive. We discuss where it came from, and why we all should stop using it. 

But first, we talk to Robert Goodwin. He is an incredibly supportive and super helpful member of our community as well as one of the Administrators of LASSN (Los Angeles Script Supervisor’s Network). His credits include the Emmy Award-winning Dark/Web, Disney’s Earth to Ned, and Love Is Not Love which won awards at more than 100 film festivals. We have an enlightening conversation about continuity mismatches on screen and gender roles as related to film crew positions.

Hosted, Created & Produced by Caryn Ruby
Produced and Edited by Eden Woolworth
Sound Mixer Adam Carl
Original Music by Edith Mudge

 Logo design by Sharon Watt
Episode artwork by Ana Ziegler Loes

Transcript

Sharon Watt (00:01)

They’re the unsung heroes on film and TV

Various (00:06)

Script Script Script Supervisor, script, script, script supervisors... the unsung hero...I kinda like that.

Caryn Ruby (00:19)

“Script Supervisors, Unsung Heroes of Film and TV” was created from interviews of over a dozen script supervisors from across the US. Episodes were written and produced by Caryn Ruby and Eden Woolworth, edited by Eden Woolworth and contains original music by Edith Mudge.

Randi Feldman (00:39)

Producers and directors really need to understand how important this job is.

Robert Goodwin (00:44)

I've had directors and producers make a comment about how they've never worked with a male script supervisor. The whole idea that these were ever a gendered role was always ridiculous.

Nick Robinson (00:55)

I'm there to be Robin to their Batman.

Caryn Ruby (00:59)

In this episode, I interview Robert Goodwin. He is an incredibly supportive and super helpful member of our community, and one of the administrators of LASSN - Los Angeles Script Supervisors Network. His credits include the Emmy Award-Winning "Dark/Web," Disney's "Earth to Ned" and "Love Is Not Love" which won awards at more than 100 film festivals! After the interview, we talk about how script supervisors are filmmakers and key members of the crew and why we all need to stop using the term "scripty." Today, I'm talking with Rob Goodwin, you've worked on a ton of independent films and TV shows, and I know you're always up for helping out fellow script supervisors. I'm really excited to have you on the show.

Robert Goodwin (01:45)

Hi, thanks for having me. I try to be as helpful as I can, and I think sharing stories and experiences is the best way people can learn about what actually goes on and what they might encounter themselves.

Caryn Ruby (01:58)

Awesome. What are some high points of your career so far?

Robert Goodwin (02:02)

I got to meet some personal heroes, like I got to work on Jason Mewes' directorial debut "Madness in the Method," which is on Amazon, and that was really great cuz you know, I'm from New Jersey. So I grew up with Jay and Silent Bob and getting to meet him was really cool. I got to meet Kevin Smith on another job. That's kind of like the coolest stuff in this job is, it steers you in so many cool directions where all of a sudden you're able to work with people that you grew up watching. But a lot of the stuff that I've done - mainly cuz it's non-union, I don't think anybody's really seen. I don't mind that, I just like to be working. <Laugh> Yeah, but anybody finds my name in the credits, you know, they can go ahead and shout me out.

Caryn Ruby (02:47)

<laugh> How did you get involved in LASSN?

Robert Goodwin (02:49)

I got involved early on. It was started by Hallie Overman and Sarah Garrettson and the first few meetings I came to, it was really just the three of us. And since then, I was really hooked on the idea of this network because I moved from New Jersey out to California and got into script supervising and didn't know anybody in the field. And that idea of having a place that was consistent for meeting new people and sharing those experiences helped to give me comfort when I was first starting out, so that's why I really put a lot of effort into keeping the group going and making sure that we have these meetings and are growing new members. Cause I feel like the best way to get into this industry is to have a network of people that you can reach out to, to have your questions answered, as well as to help you get new kinds of jobs to keep building a well rounded portfolio. Cuz there are so many different types of things that you need to script supervise for, and they all have their own quirks to the job.

Caryn Ruby (03:52)

Yeah, a hundred percent. So you moved to LA specifically to be a script supervisor?

Robert Goodwin (03:59)

No, I had been doing reality TV in New York, New Jersey, Philadelphia area for about a year and a half, two years after college, and there's no script supervisor in that world - or at least none that I had run into. And I was very tired of the reality TV world and the moving horizontally where I was just kind of doing the same jobs for different companies and different shows, and not really moving up. So I decided to move out to California to get more into narrative work. And as I was doing a bunch of different jobs, it felt like I was doing the same type of work as I was doing back East, but just in narrative. And that's what kind of led me to different positions. And when I finally talked to a script supervisor on funnily enough, uh, a music video I was doing - which very rarely has a script supervisor - her name was Susan, and she really helped me to get an idea of what the job was. Cause I was not aware that there was a job responsible for continuity. I just thought it was something that happens on all the craziness of filmmaking. So when she was describing the job, I just kept thinking, wow, this hits a lot of my strong suits. I get to work with all these different departments, and I get to look for these continuity errors that coincidentally I have written about on IMDB in high school and in my college years. So it was something that I already had a little foundation for, was finding these logical inconsistencies and these continuity mismatches. And while I was talking to her, I was trying to figure out how she got into it. And she set me up with her mentor, Mark Thomas in Santa Monica, and he agreed to take me on to train me. And after a summer of doing passes with him and mock sessions, you know, it was time for me to go out and do it on my own. And that was really how I got into script supervising.

Caryn Ruby (05:52)

And you never looked back

Robert Goodwin (05:53)

And I never looked back.

Caryn Ruby (05:56)

What do you love most about script supervising?

Robert Goodwin (05:59)

How involved you get to be without really having a lot of the responsibility. <laugh> allowing you to feel important without feeling stressed about how important you are, because at the end of the day, other people make the decisions that really end up taking both the praise, but also the criticism. So it's, it's nice to get, to be involved in all the conversations, but also take that step back and not have anything really come down on you.

Caryn Ruby (06:25)

Yeah. That's like I pointed that out...

Robert Goodwin (06:28)

Yep.

Caryn Ruby (06:28)

Did my job.

Robert Goodwin (06:29)

Yeah. And when you understand that much of the time you do catch mistakes and the mistakes end up making the final cut anyway,.it's a lot easier cuz you know that we found it or we discussed it. But even if we did it perfectly in another take, they might not use it anyway. It's not worth stressing over.

Caryn Ruby (06:46)

Yeah. I feel like that's one of the most misunderstood aspects of continuity. I know there's people out there who live to find continuity errors in film and TV. And I know that when you were younger, this was something you were passionate about. Do you think that led you to this career?

Robert Goodwin (06:59)

Yeah. Well I watched a lot of movies and TV in my high school and college years, and I always had that attention to detail where I would be like, "wait, something was off" and I would back it up if I could or I'd watch things multiple times and remember, "wait, something was weird here" and look out for it. And I would find a bunch of things that you probably don't catch the first time or you maybe caught but dismissed because it is a pretty minor thing. But when you find 'em you like to share 'em, because you hope that if it makes you excited that you caught it, somebody else gets excited that you pointed out that oftentimes is actually not the case. A lot of people think you ruin things for 'em? I dunno. I think it makes it more fun to see the little rips in the fabric of the movie magic. It's like a peak behind the curtain.

Caryn Ruby (07:48)

Mmm. I've got a question. The majority of script supervisors I know are women, have you ran into any issues because you're a man in this position?

Robert Goodwin (07:57)

Yes. More often than I would like, I've had directors or producers make a comment about how they've never worked with a male script supervisor, or didn't know that there were male script supervisors, and I've even had one production not like that I was a male script supervisor - believed it was a job that was more suited for women because of women's stereotypical superiority, I guess, over men with attention to detail? It's just such an antiquated idea that paying attention is better suited for one gender or another <laugh>

Caryn Ruby (08:31)

<laugh> It's so crazy.

Robert Goodwin (08:32)

Yeah. Either you're good at the job or you're not is, is what it is, same for every position. And it's nice that we are seeing the more stereotypical gender role positions like women as script supervisors and men are directors and cinematographers are starting to flip. And you're getting more and more male script supervisors, you're getting more and more female directors and female cinematographers who are breaking those molds saying, "look, the whole idea that these were ever a gendered role was always ridiculous" and we're finally changing it.

Caryn Ruby (09:04)

Right. So how about advice for newbies? People who are listening to this podcast who think, "ah, I think I might wanna try that script supervising one day." What should they do?

Robert Goodwin (09:18)

My advice would be ask a lot of current script supervisors, a lot of questions about what the job is because it is a job you have to commit to. It's hard to just kind of dabble in it because you have to invest a lot of time in learning it, just to step on set. There's a lot that goes into the job. And if you step on set without knowing it, you just become a horror story that hurts our whole industry. Like every script supervisor's probably heard from a producer about a terrible script supervisor they had. And oftentimes that script supervisor is somebody who jumped into it without enough experience or no experience. It could have been a PA that they handed a bunch of papers to and were like, "just fill these out as we go" and then call them a script supervisor and they didn't know what the heck they were doing. Or they're somebody who read a couple of the books, which are great, but most people can't memorize a whole book, and don't have the time to go back and look at it on a paid gig and they're not experienced enough and they're nervous and they make mistakes.

Robert Goodwin (10:13)

So my best advice I could give is, understand the job as best you can before stepping on set and step onto a very low risk set. Maybe try script supervising on a friend's project or a student project where you can make mistakes before you commit to it and you invest in something like training, which is typically expensive - and figure out how much you like it. Are you willing to put in the hours of the long day? Cause we work longer than the normal 12 hours. How good are you at taking these notes and getting all the information you need, and paying attention to everything you need. And also very importantly, how much pressure do you put on yourself? Cause that's a big part of it. If you are going to take every single issue that you miss really personally and let it affect things down the road, you're probably not gonna last too long. You have to be able to roll with things and understand that we're all gonna make mistakes and where you learn that is on those low pressure sets.

Caryn Ruby (11:12)

Nice. Yeah, that's perfect. Okay, then, this has been so great. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me and to share your information and your experience with the world. It's gonna make a huge difference.

Robert Goodwin (11:27)

Thanks, yeah, I love talking about what we do and it's such a great job that too many people don't know about, you know, any way that I can help spread the word is definitely my pleasure, and it's been great talking to you.

Caryn Ruby (11:44)

The extraordinary script supervisors on this season include Dawn Gillam who scripted “Black Panther,” “Boyz N the Hood,” “Fences,” “Star Wars Episode IX.” and she also got IMDB to create a new category for script supervisors. Margery Kimbrough has scripted Academy Award nominees and Emmy and Golden Globe winners such as “Harriet,” “Fear the Walking Dead” and “The Good Lord Bird.” Known as the author of the quintessential book "Beyond Continuity: Script Supervision For The Modern Filmmaker," Mary Cybulski has scripted multiple Academy Award and Golden Globe winning films, including “Life of Pi” and “Michael Clayton.” Randi Feldman has taught the craft of script supervising for over 20 years. Her professional credits include the Oscar-Nominated “Mighty Joe Young” and Sundance winner, “Guinevere.” Barry Caldwell scripted on “Beautiful Boy,” “Ugly Betty,” “Key and Peele,” “Queen of the South” and the cult classic “Cabin Fever,” Sharon Watt scripted culture-shifting and award-winning shows “Pose,” “When They See Us,” “Mr. Robot,” “The Americans” and “Boardwalk Empire.” Hannah Driscoll script supervises the Emmy-Nominated series “Pen 15” as well as big budget commercials for well-known brands. Script supervisor on Emmy-Nominated “Dolly Parton's Heartstrings,” “The Originals,” “Ozark,” and “Zombieland 2 Double Tap” Toni Crey. Self-described internet prankster, Nick Robinson, script supervisors commercials starring A-list talent and films that premiere at top tier festivals. In addition to "Script Soup," her book on script supervising, Beatrice Bellino creates experimental films and has scripted Emmy-Award winners “Friday Night Lights,” “Revolution,” and “Fear the Walking Dead.” Shadia Sepehrnia scripted, Lena Waithe's Tribecca Award-Winning series "Girls Room" and also writes and directs. Administrator of Los Angeles Script Supervisors Network Robert Goodwin's credits include the Emmy Award-Winning “Dark/Web” and “Love is Not Love” which snagged over 100 festival wins. And finally multi-talented Roe Mooore scripts everything from films and commercials to live TV, teaches script supervising and is a member of the DGA, Local 871 and Producer's Guild.

Caryn Ruby (13:55)

Script supervisors are a key part of the filmmaking process and have so much to contribute in pre-production, yet we are often one of the last department heads hired. Worse, to save money, sometimes low budget productions eliminate our position entirely. And we're not going to get into the whole department of one thing right now - but I mean every other department has people in it! And if you've been listening, you already know why that has to change. This episode we look at some of the skill sets that script supervisors bring to our craft as filmmakers, ways we work with the Director and other department heads, and why the term "scripty" can be so dang offensive. We'll hear clips from my interviews with Randi Feldman, Dawn Gilliam, Hannah Driscoll, Margery Kimbrough, Sharon Watt, Robert Goodwin, Shadia Sepehrnia, Nick Robinson, Beatrice Bellino, Mary Cybulski and Barry Caldwell. It really amazes me how many things script supervisors have to know in order to do our job. Dawn breaks it down really well.

Dawn Gilliam (15:07)

If you expect a script supervisor to know if we're covered in a scene, what skills are you asking that script supervisor to come with? What skills does a script supervisor have to have in order to do some of the things that you're asking? Because there's a lot of times when we get on the set that they expect you to know this stuff, "are we covered?" So what does that mean? You're asking me, do I know filmmaking? Do I know how to break down a scene? Do I understand coverage? Do I know my camera angles? Do I know a little bit of editing? There's a lot that you're asking and they don't even know that they're asking for. So we need a really intellectual discussion about our craft, to the people who are demanding stuff from us.

Randi Feldman (15:55)

Producers and directors really need to understand how important this job is. You can create any kind of software program you want or build any computer or any digital information to transpire between people, but you cannot ever replace the thinking and the amount of work that a script supervisor puts into every shot.

Hannah Driscoll (16:18)

I can only manage what you put in front of me at the end of the day. So honestly, if you're not going to include me in your preproduction, just an all hands meeting, a creative discussion, so that I know the latest scripts, I have all of my tools, I know omissions of lines, omissions of setups, omissions of scenes to make sure the continuity works... I can't do my job fully and you will have some parts missing. It's a true disappointment when I hear people say like, "oh, we don't need a script supervisor. They're just an auxiliary crew member." Try making this without one. I would love to see that. You just realize how integral you are to the whole team.

Caryn Ruby (16:53)

Yes. Being included in important conversations with the director and key department heads actually benefits the entire production, and can save valuable time on set. During takes, there's a million things the director can be focused on and maybe they didn't notice that the actor flubbed a line, and that slight difference in wording negates something else in the story. We could be the only one that caught it, and we need to let the director know. Just like the sensitivity needed when approaching actors, it's the same with directors. We have to be mindful of their process, know how, and when to bring these things up, and find the best way to get their comments and preferred takes out of their head and into our notes.

Robert Goodwin (17:37)

When you work with a director for a while, or you get towards the end of a few weeks long shoot or months long shoot, you start to pick up on even just little nuances that a director will do - a look they'll give at the end of a take, or just their body language during the take. And you'll be able to kind of note that without them ever having to stop and tell you, and they could just keep going with what their minds set on and that's always important. If you can act as a portion of the director's brain, that they don't have to worry about and can stay more focused on the things that they are prioritizing, you're gonna be much more effective.

Mary Cybulski (18:13)

Cause the director has so many other things to think about. The page is not in front of him. He's really tuned into the emotion of it and the very subtle dynamic of it and he's not comparing the dialogue like I am. So it's not like I know more than him. I'm just, I can check something. You know, I'm watching his back for him.

Shadia Sepehrnia (18:31)

They have a lot of things they're going through and a lot of times they forget about like the most important thing. A lot of times blocking's a lot more important, position of the camera is more important and they forget about performance. And so you have to be there to be like, "wait a second. Was that reaction what you wanted? Is that gonna match when you get the coverage? Like what about this? This actor did this. Do you want them to keep doing it?" There're little things that they don't pick up on. And that's why we're there.

Nick Robinson (18:58)

I generally try to help the directors I work with. I try to protect them, I try to get them making the picture they want to make. And they see me as like oversight, as someone trying to step in and take their project away from them. They see us come to them with like, "Hey, you're breaking the 180" or whatever and they feel it's people trying to enforce a will outside of theirs on them. And it's not that at all. I'm not there to do that at all. I'm there to be Robin to their Batman. I'm there to make sure that this is gonna work. And you know, what, if they're trying something weird or different, that's cool with me. You know, like I'll let it go. I can bring up the concern, but it's their decision to make. You're cool with this, I'm cool with this. Cause Lord knows I need less things to worry about.

Caryn Ruby (19:48)

Seriously. Another thing we haven't really talked about that much is how we also work directly with all the other department heads to make sure everyone is literally on the same page for story continuity. So they can do their thing. Whether that means "what time of day the scene takes place? "Or, "what was on the table when we shot the scene last week...or before lunch? Smart crew members know how much helpful information we have and make use of it so we can avoid unnecessary mistakes before we roll.

Hannah Driscoll (20:19)

When I get on set, I am on walkie with camera and I make sure that Art department, the gaffer and hair and makeup and everybody that's by monitor - the director and any type of producer that's on set that day knows that I have all of these matching things that we can do and we can go very fast. I can let the DP know the color temperature that we shot three weeks ago on a scene that's right after or the scene that follows in the same room. And also I can give you this creative freedom of, "Hey, you're directing something and you really like ad lib. That's amazing. I'm gonna make sure that the plot points are hit" or "Hey, you're directing something that is factual, so everything needs to be verbatim. So I will make sure that everything is the same, including the tense. So if a take isn't usable because of the dialogue, I will let you know, in that sense." So I really like when people come up to set, up to my stand up to my desk and they ask me these questions,

Shadia Sepehrnia (21:12)

I think it's important for the script supervisor to collaborate, even with the DP to go over a shot list and just to be like, "Hey, this shot list, is it too much coverage?" Because a lot of times the thing with me is I always see them overshoot, things are never going to use. And it's kind of depending on the DP, cuz some of them just don't care about your opinion. And I think by talking with the director and saying like, "Hey, maybe you don't need this coverage. You've got it here." That's a good way of just, you know, knocking stuff out so that you're not repeating yourself. And you're not giving so much for your editor to look at because a lot of times people don't think about that. They just think, oh, I'm just gonna give everything to the editor and they can deal with it.

Caryn Ruby (21:54)

Right! The editor, speaking of, each editor has their own work style and navigating that relationship is important too.

Mary Cybulski (22:02)

I've always really loved to talk to my editors, and they'll let you know of something is wacky, you know. And you can be there and watch out for whatever they're worried about on set, cause they can't be there. I think that's a very, very important relationship.

Beatrice Bellino (22:16)

There have been times where the editors are very dependent and tuned into my notes and wanting to double check things or clarify, "Could you also get this.." Or, "remind them that we wanna get that" or whatever, like really working with me. And there have been times where the editor is like, "oh, I don't really look at your notes." <laugh> Whatever your system is, I still use my notes to make sure that we're covering things or did we get that? Or if someone needs to look at something again, I can find it. We represent the on set presence for the editor in many ways, but it also, it helps us do what we need to do.

Caryn Ruby (22:48)

So, we're the eyes and ears of the editor on set. We serve as backup for the director. We can consult with the DP regarding shot sizes or camera angles, run lines with actors, we name and manage setups for the slate and collaborate with all the department heads on issues of continuity. And I still didn't even list everything.

Caryn Ruby (23:12)

Script supervisors are skilled crafts people and hyper-organized department heads with a deep understanding of filmmaking who often go on to become directors and screenwriters. And yet we are one of the only crafts on set with a nickname that isn't just the initials of our job, like an AD or PA. But to be clear, we do not wanna be referred to as the SS! But so many people call us "scripty," and it's not just our coworkers. I've even seen it used on official Instagram and YouTube channels for more than one film school. It's so common that most people don't even realize it's offensive. I didn't at first! Though, I didn't like it when I saw it used on a work contract as the job title, because scripty is not a title, scripty is a nickname that minimizes our significance on set. You wouldn't call the director "directy." We are script supervisors, keyword "supervisor." One of the "keys" on set, and it's demeaning whether the person saying it means it that way or not.

Dawn Gilliam (24:22)

We are very valuable to the set. We ride that line, that's my thing. We work with the actors, the directors, the producers, the camera who are all above the line. We ride that line, you know? And so we're not that we're better or anything, I'm just saying that we ride that line and we are probably more of an above the line craft than a below the line craft. And so when people call me scripty, I, the next thing I say, "script supervisor." I have been, and still to this day, battling it every set that I go on, because there are some script supervisors who don't mind and think it's cute. The word it demeans us. It keeps us in this cutesy kind of a thing, and I think just script supervising - the craft itself - is way more important than this particular name. On my paycheck it says script supervisor. I've seen the codes and stuff like that. Now that they are being more and more electronic with our start paperwork. If you see the code, it says script supervisor, it don't say scripty. It doesn't say crafty either. I will never call them crafty, I call them craft service. Yes. It's long. Call me script, uh, call me Dawn, or D, but you know, we don't call directors nicknames.

Barry Caldwell (25:40)

The word scripty is a sexist phrase. Women have always been, um, what's the word diminunized? You know, cutie, sweetie, honey. Those words are diminutive that, that it makes them less than it diminishes their standing as adults. And so the word scripty is diminutive. We're talking about scripty versus script. supervisor. Supervisor is a management position. It's important. We are a department head. So to call, all of us scripty it's diminutive. Now, when somebody calls me that, I'm not offended. I don't mind it, but I do understand and respect the history of why some women are really offended by it. And I respect that and I really try to not use it.

Caryn Ruby (26:21)

I think we should all try not to use it.

Caryn Ruby (26:24)

That's it for this episode! Special thanks to all the script supervisors who were featured, and to you, our listener. I hope you had fun and maybe even learned something. “Script Supervisors: Unsung Heroes of Film & TV” was created and produced by Caryn Ruby in consultation with the Los Angeles Script Supervisors Network. Episodes were edited and produced by Eden Woolworth with original music composed by Edith Mudge. Please subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and give us a rating or leave a comment. And if you know anyone who makes movies without a script supervisor, let them know about us. We are @The.Script.Supervisor.Podcast on Instagram.